stefk wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 4:11 am
@christianninja, I agree 95% with you, but Jesus and the church dont have the monopol of sacralisation of marriage.
Everwhere in the world, by the pygmees, the hottentots, the hopis, the pawnees, the sioux, in the mountains, in the deserts, in the jungle, the marriage was and is sacralised. Why? because its a protection for the children. The objective of the union between a man and a woman is to make children. The sexuality is normally for procreation.
And the sexuality in the western countries is more and more recreative.
Its an important oppostion between Russia and the west. In The russian constitution, the basis of the society is the family, and the family is a dad, a mum and children. Its a principle, its symbolic, but its important. And its a real battle between the western elites, who promote and want to impose the wokism, and Russia.
I don't see marriage as a Christian concept, it's a God concept!
Christianity was born out of Judaism, Jesus was a Jew and so were all his disciples. I see it that God revealed to man that marriage was his design and his best for humanity. As man went astray God had a plan of salvation which would come through a nation first (Israel), and for a time he would give guidance and revelation through them alone until it's fulfillment in Jesus the Christ. However, at the same time the tradition of marriage was maintained through other societies and nations as they developed and people spread across the globe, but of course new traditions of marriage alongside new concepts of God would develop as the connection to God was lost. So I don't believe that marriage sprung up in different places independently but was from one source that spread out and branched into different forms and traditions.
In this context I say go Russia!
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
SOL wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 7:21 am
They can fight much longer, and take on more pain than any Westernized European nation.
WWII
(very approx figures)
500,000 English died
500,000 Americans died
26,000,000 Russians died
I was astonished to find out yesterday that someone more or less my age didn't know that the Russians were on 'our' side for most of WWII.
Perhaps it is the current anti-Russian stance that has warped views.
To my shame I didn't know that Harry, I presumed as is portrayed that the Russians only came into the war when Hitler decided to attack them.
If you or anyone else has any recommended resources that would be good.
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
SOL wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 7:21 am
They can fight much longer, and take on more pain than any Westernized European nation.
WWII
(very approx figures)
500,000 English died
500,000 Americans died
26,000,000 Russians died
I was astonished to find out yesterday that someone more or less my age didn't know that the Russians were on 'our' side for most of WWII.
Perhaps it is the current anti-Russian stance that has warped views.
I'm surprised you didn't get the response: "War! What war?"
..whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government..
stefk wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 4:11 am
Its an important oppostion between Russia and the west. In The russian constitution, the basis of the society is the family, and the family is a dad, a mum and children. Its a principle, its symbolic, but its important. And its a real battle between the western elites, who promote and want to impose the wokism, and Russia.
A lot of what you state is very true. You have some great insights when it comes to ancient history and customs. The above statement is particularly true, though I would add that many of the former soviet union nations still have that mentality. It is prevalent wherever the new slime western doctrine has not gained a foothold. But Russia comes to the forefront because of this current war which is well beyond Ukraine. I noticed that whenever I visited Ukraine (some of the parts are now Russian) the family was always at the forefront. I keep in touch with a lot of Ukrainians, former Ukrainians who are either part of Russia now or moved to Russia, Russians, Belarusians, etc and the theme you mention of the family being the center of everything holds true.
In countries where Western doctrines have gained a foothold, I see changes in countries like Moldova, Romania, the western part of Ukraine, Poland (and sadly so, because this is a lovely country), Bulgaria, the big cities in Serbia, Slovakia, etc. The interesting part is this family theme is also strong in places like Turkey, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, and definitely in most parts of Asia. It tends to run strong also in South America, but it's more prevalent in smaller towns.
on a separate note, after talking to many individuals from Russia, I see the prevailing theme is that the Russians have now dug in for a long war and they don't just view this war as being a war against Ukraine but an existential war against the entire West. This has serious implications for while Russians are Europeans (to a large part, there are other cultures there), they are unlike their western counterparts. They can fight much longer, and take on more pain than any Westernized European nation. Secondly, they are stubborn, once they make up their minds, it is very hard to get them to change again. Hence, the West has to now accept that while once upon a time Western Goods and culture were embraced, the new Russians are going to reject it for decades to come. Western Europe has lost a lot of customers for decades to come.
Maybe I am wrong but our resident Russian expert, Scott the sharpshooter can chime in with his opinions as he is closer to the action.
I'm no expert, but will proffer that back in the day, it was ingrained in this culture to finish what you start. I'd say Putin and the Kremlin are definitely "old school". Youngsters though, seem to have been afflicted by the west.
We are a stardust WAVEFORM in a quantum entanglement.
stefk wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 4:11 am
Its an important oppostion between Russia and the west. In The russian constitution, the basis of the society is the family, and the family is a dad, a mum and children. Its a principle, its symbolic, but its important. And its a real battle between the western elites, who promote and want to impose the wokism, and Russia.
A lot of what you state is very true. You have some great insights when it comes to ancient history and customs. The above statement is particularly true, though I would add that many of the former soviet union nations still have that mentality. It is prevalent wherever the new slime western doctrine has not gained a foothold. But Russia comes to the forefront because of this current war which is well beyond Ukraine. I noticed that whenever I visited Ukraine (some of the parts are now Russian) the family was always at the forefront. I keep in touch with a lot of Ukrainians, former Ukrainians who are either part of Russia now or moved to Russia, Russians, Belarusians, etc and the theme you mention of the family being the center of everything holds true.
In countries where Western doctrines have gained a foothold, I see changes in countries like Moldova, Romania, the western part of Ukraine, Poland (and sadly so, because this is a lovely country), Bulgaria, the big cities in Serbia, Slovakia, etc. The interesting part is this family theme is also strong in places like Turkey, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, and definitely in most parts of Asia. It tends to run strong also in South America, but it's more prevalent in smaller towns.
on a separate note, after talking to many individuals from Russia, I see the prevailing theme is that the Russians have now dug in for a long war and they don't just view this war as being a war against Ukraine but an existential war against the entire West. This has serious implications for while Russians are Europeans (to a large part, there are other cultures there), they are unlike their western counterparts. They can fight much longer, and take on more pain than any Westernized European nation. Secondly, they are stubborn, once they make up their minds, it is very hard to get them to change again. Hence, the West has to now accept that while once upon a time Western Goods and culture were embraced, the new Russians are going to reject it for decades to come. Western Europe has lost a lot of customers for decades to come.
Maybe I am wrong but our resident Russian expert, Scott the sharpshooter can chime in with his opinions as he is closer to the action.
I'm no expert, but will proffer that back in the day, it was ingrained in this culture to finish what you start. I'd say Putin and the Kremlin are definitely "old school". Youngsters though, seem to have been afflicted by the west.
How prescient was Boris Yeltsin picking VVP to succeed him. Or was it blind luck or hand of God? Machiavelli might say it was the confluence of Virtu and Fortuna ("cometh the hour cometh the man").
Me, I favour the latter not only for Russia but for the world in general.
..whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government..
I really think that this war is more religious than we think. Dont forget that Moscow is considered by Russians as the third Rome. The second Rome was Contantinople ( and not Byzance). that is linked with justification of necessity and inevitability of the unity of the Eastern Orthodox Church.
bpcw wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 11:09 am
To my shame I didn't know that Harry, I presumed as is portrayed that the Russians only came into the war when Hitler decided to attack them.
If you or anyone else has any recommended resources that would be good.
That's more or less right - the person I spoke to had them on the side of the Germans for the whole of WWII. I don't watch TV news etc but I wondered if he thought that because of anti-Russia media coverage.
Russia had a non-aggression pact with Germany and they started on the same side in '39. Both invaded Poland but we (UK) only declared war on Germany.
Germans broke the pact by trying to invade Russia in the middle of 1941. Not the first people in history to find out that Russia is nippy in the winter and they gave up in the face of very fierce opposition.
Russia was then on the side of the Allies mid 1941-1945.
I'm sure others know far more about it.
Maybe I was unclear, I was replying more to SOL's statement about them taking on more pain.
bpcw wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 11:09 am
To my shame I didn't know that Harry, I presumed as is portrayed that the Russians only came into the war when Hitler decided to attack them.
If you or anyone else has any recommended resources that would be good.
That's more or less right - the person I spoke to had them on the side of the Germans for the whole of WWII. I don't watch TV news etc but I wondered if he thought that because of anti-Russia media coverage.
Russia had a non-aggression pact with Germany and they started on the same side in '39. Both invaded Poland but we (UK) only declared war on Germany.
Germans broke the pact by trying to invade Russia in the middle of 1941. Not the first people in history to find out that Russia is nippy in the winter and they gave up in the face of very fierce opposition.
Russia was then on the side of the Allies mid 1941-1945.
I'm sure others know far more about it.
Maybe I was unclear, I was replying more to SOL's statement about them taking on more pain.
Done a bit of digging and the number of deaths was so high as they fought a mainly land war along a massive border and were ill prepared with poor arms, sometimes sending men in without a gun, you would get one when your comrade fell, most Germans died on this eastern front, lots more but it's all out there!
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
bpcw wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 9:49 pm
Imagine you settle down with someone and your partner says I will commit to you for 5 years then I want to find another partner. How would that make you feel? Most of us if we're honest desire someone to love us unconditionally and without clauses or time limits. This is what God offers us and marriage is a reflection of this when it functions as designed.
By the way, Jesus didn't say, just pray to me and I'll sort out all your issues. What he actually said was "you will have many TROUBLES in this world, but I have overcome the world". In other words, I'm not going to rescue you from every bad situation in this life, what I have provided is a way to eternal life where you will have no troubles if you believe, trust and follow me. It's the ultimate investment that requires the ultimate amount of patience!
The scenario you describe (a 5 year renewable marriage contract) is ideal in my mind (and assuming children aren't involved). With children the 5 year marriage contract should auto extend to a 20 year contract. 5 years is long enough that you reassess and move along if things aren't still good. Of course I'm an atheist so I'm not confused by viewing marriage in religious context.
"unconditional love" just doesn't exist. I once heard a preacher say Jesus & God are the only ones with unconditional love. But since evidence suggest strongly that neither exist It plain doesn't exist. Also the bible has many examples of getting to heaven based on conditions (hardly conditional love).
Unfortunately our society and women (my wife included) view marriage very differently. And as we get older it doesn't hurt to have someone to make us smoothies and push the wheel chair.
Current atmospheric levels of CO2 (400ppm) are much lower than 500 million years ago (3000-9000ppm).
Triplethought wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 5:12 pm
"unconditional love" just doesn't exist. I once heard a preacher say Jesus & God are the only ones with unconditional love. But since evidence suggest strongly that neither exist It plain doesn't exist. Also the bible has many examples of getting to heaven based on conditions (hardly conditional love).
Unconditional love but conditional salvation, you have to have faith!
We'll agree to disagree on the evidence for God & Jesus, I think there is immense evidence but it comes down to who/what you believe and the interpretation of it.
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
harryg wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 7:58 am
500,000 Americans died
26,000,000 Russians died
Most likely >26 million Russians died in ww2. 26 million is a _very_ conservative estimate.
I don't know a single American (I spent four years at an Ivy League university in the USSA when younger) who knows that it was Stalin's Russians (and the Russian Winter) that ultimately won ww2.
Buy Fear, Sell Euphoria. The Neonatal Calf undergoes an agonizing birthing, while the Bear falls into hibernation.
Triplethought wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 5:12 pm
"unconditional love" just doesn't exist.
Indeed, life is really just a series of mostly unpleasant transactions, and then you die.
Somebody actually said that to me once!
When I was younger and with a girlfriend I went to say 'life's a bitch and then you die' but before I got to 'and then you die' she interrupted and said 'then you marry one', I hadn't heard it at the time and I burst out laughing!
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
