Fasting & Intermittent Fasting

[Eric]

I found this guy by accident going down the YouTube rabbit hole. I knew some/much of the stuff about insulin, didn't know much about ketosis. A lot of the things about carbs making you hungry and hunger going away if you push through it for a while. There's a lot of research presented and everything appears to me to be well researched and reasoned.

https://youtu.be/KSSBiNPZs8Q

https://youtu.be/pfgM6nfWU-I

He also has a playlist of 11 more good videos related to fasting, keto diets, etc.

I think I'm going to try it. I have electrolyte packets and caffeine pills on order because I don't drink coffee but can't give up my caffeine that quickly. Aside from the embarrassingly high number of diet colas, I ate keto today and plan to do so for a couple days before starting a fast. I was going to start Thursday to put potentially the worst days (2-4) over the weekend but now my F.I.L. wants to come down this weekend and help me take down a few dead trees... I probably shouldn't schedule being a crabby hungry asshole for this weekend.

[SOL]

I found this guy by accident going down the YouTube rabbit hole. I knew some/much of the stuff about insulin, didn't know much about ketosis. A lot of the things about carbs making you hungry and hunger going away if you push through it for a while. There's a lot of research presented and everything appears to me to be well researched and reasoned.

He also has a playlist of 11 more good videos related to fasting, keto diets, etc.

I think I'm going to try it. I have electrolyte packets and caffeine pills on order because I don't drink coffee but can't give up my caffeine that quickly. Aside from the embarrassingly high number of diet colas, I ate keto today and plan to do so for a couple days before starting a fast. I was going to start Thursday to put potentially the worst days (2-4) over the weekend but now my F.I.L. wants to come down this weekend and help me take down a few dead trees... I probably shouldn't schedule being a crabby hungry asshole for this weekend.

One thing to do note, any diet drink is terrible. It is hard to get fat on pure sugar alone. It is what you eat with the sugar that is dangerous. When I drink soda I make sure the only sweetener is sugar; if there is any other sweetener used, I avoid it. Complex carbs are the problem. You want to lose weight permanently without a lot of pain. Eliminate all wheat products from your diet and most grains. You won't have to do much after that.

Some complex carbs are good. You could also lose massive pounds by going on the potato diet, you have nothing but potatoes and as much as you want. It is amazing how much will lose. However, removing wheat and most grains from your diet is the best way to be fit and also avoid insulin spikes (wheat causes big spikes in insulin and sugar).

You have cheat days. I have one cheat day a month, 12 a year. Once I use the 12 up It's done. However, over the past 6 years, I have never managed to use all 12


I don't like diets, because the implication is that you are dying. I prefer permanent lifestyle changes that after brief period of stress become easily to follow. I can eat as much chocolate or good quality icecream I want without gaining a single ounce. I once did an experiment for one whole week I ate 1-2 large bars of chocolates per day and about a Pint of haagen daaz ice cream (some have corn syrup, so avoid those) and experienced no weight gain.

Potential problems with Keto

1. Keto Flu
It's quite common for people to experience unpleasant side effects when first starting a keto diet. These symptoms — which can include fatigue, irritability, sleep issues, headache and digestive issues — are sometimes called "keto flu."

Keto flu often goes away once the body adjusts to burning fat instead of carbohydrates, says Jim White, RD, a nutritionist and personal trainer in Virginia Beach. But it's not uncommon for people to feel weak on the keto diet, even if they've been following it for a while.

"We know that low-carb diets can have effects on energy levels and can reduce exercise performance, which in an extreme state could become dangerous," White says.

People may want to limit their high-intensity workouts while following a keto diet, he says, especially during the first few weeks.



2. Long-Term Health Concerns
More concerning, says White, is research suggesting that diets high in saturated fats may increase the risk for lasting health problems.

"There aren't really any long-term studies on keto in adults, since it's fairly new as a weight-loss diet," says White. "But we know that high levels of saturated fat are associated with things like high blood pressure and cholesterol, which can increase the risk of heart disease."

A 2017 review published in Nutrients echos White's point about the dearth of large low-carb diet studies in humans. But in animals, the review points out, keto-style diets have been associated with liver disease and insulin resistance.

In some human studies, ketogenic diets have actually been associated with decreases in cholesterol levels and blood pressure, the review notes.

"But these effects are usually limited in time," the authors write, and results have varied depending on the specifics of the diet and the demographics of the study participants. "As [ketogenic diets] are often rich in fats, some negative effects could happen," according to the review.

Those negative effects could even be life-threatening, some studies suggest. A large meta-analysis published in 2018 in The Lancet found that diets that are very low in carbs, compared to balanced diets, are associated with early death.

The review also suggests, however, that the keto diet doesn't have to be hazardous to one's health. When the researchers looked at what people were eating instead of carbs, they found that eating plant-based protein and fat was linked to a decreased risk of dying.

3. There's Potential to Go Overboard
What seems to be nutritionists' biggest concern about the keto diet is that people will use it as an excuse to eat lots of cheese and bacon, but will ignore the advice to eat lots of vegetables and other plant-based foods.

In fact, a major concern of the keto diet is that it allows plenty of saturated fats and animal products, which increase risk for heart and kidney diseases as well as cancer, a June 2020 study in The American Journal of Medicine notes. That's why the researchers state that this diet is not for people who aren't meticulous about making the right food choices.

"The keto diet is not supposed to be super high in saturated fat," says Amy Goss, PhD, a registered dietitian and assistant professor of nutrition sciences at the University of Alabama at Birmingham.

"It's really supposed to be a mix of plants and some animal sources of fat — including foods like avocado, olive oil, nuts and seeds — and smaller portions, because they're so calorically dense."

Another worry is that people often embark on keto diets without the guidance of a health professional. "When the diet was designed for children with epilepsy, the idea was that it was monitored very closely," says White.

"I tell people that if they want to try keto, they should work with a nutritionist or doctor to make sure they're getting the nutrients they need and avoiding possible health risks."

https://www.livestrong.com/article/2850 ... sis-diets/


The article provides a total of 5 reasons. Most western-based diets are based on rubbish. Nobody knows your body better than you.

[Yodean]

I found this guy by accident going down the YouTube rabbit hole. I knew some/much of the stuff about insulin, didn't know much about ketosis. A lot of the things about carbs making you hungry and hunger going away if you push through it for a while. There's a lot of research presented and everything appears to me to be well researched and reasoned.

My 2c:

Yeh, I've been doing intermittent fasting (IF) for over ten years now. Very powerful practice, but like any, needs to be individualized. Gave a few well-attended talks about the topic to the local docs in my area many years ago - if you want my slides (outdated, but still useful - not that much has changed in IF, really, except more and more accumulating evidence), PM me with a secure email address and I can send them to you.

Start low and go slow with IF ... the whole "go big or go home" thing will lead to unnecessary disaster in IF - i.e. you'll likely "bonk" (term marathon runners use when you break).

Also, if you're starting out with IF, don't do the keto diet at the same time - for most, this is a bad idea. Better to get your body used to IF first, then if you want, add in the keto part. Also vice versa.

Once you're comfortable with IF, then the sky's the limit - you can add in low intensity exercise (e.g. walking, hiking) during your IF periods, which will preferentially burn fat and improve your metabolic "switch" (from burning carbs to burning fat). Once you're really comfortable with IF, you can add back in higher intensity exercise (if you want).

Another consideration (since I know you have a bunch of young offspring) - don't push too hard on the IF in terms of duration if you're not sleeping at least somewhat well.

If you push on the IF front while sleep-deprived, you'll likely bonk and hate yourself , especially when starting out. Too much acute phase stress hormones will be activated in this scenario.

I haven't looked closely at the videos you posted, but as a starting point, I'd prolly take a look at YT clips from the following two (there are many, but these two aren't bad to start) wrt IF:

-Brad Pilon (Canadian dude, GND - guy next door);
-Jason Fung (Canadian nephrologist, reasonable, likes to eat);

They've had a lot more experience with IF - both personally and in terms of teaching IF to clients/patients - than most.

In fact, Fung has a pretty cool clinic where he minimizes and eliminates medications (including insulin injections) in type 2 diabetic patients, principally through IF, diet, gentle exercise, etc.

As a general rule, when given a choice, I tend to not listen to young YT "experts," and prefer those with more experience.

[Eric]

You should watch the videos, all the criticisms are addressed.

You want to lose weight permanently without a lot of pain. Eliminate all wheat products from your diet and most grains. You won't have to do much after that.

That's not painless to me, over the long term I would find it easier to eat nothing at all periodically than to go grain free. (Which is practically Atkins/Keto anyway-two well proven diet plans.)

Potential problems with Keto

1. Keto Flu
It's quite common for people to experience unpleasant side effects when first starting a keto diet. These symptoms — which can include fatigue, irritability, sleep issues, headache and digestive issues — are sometimes called "keto flu."

Keto flu is probably massive sodium/electrolyte imbalance addressed at 7m20s in the first video and in other videos as well. As blood sugar goes down the kidneys dump sodium. Low sodium results in: fatigue, weakness, nausea, headache, muscle cramps.

2. Long-Term Health Concerns
More concerning, says White, is research suggesting that diets high in saturated fats may increase the risk for lasting health problems.

"There aren't really any long-term studies on keto in adults, since it's fairly new as a weight-loss diet," says White. "But we know that high levels of saturated fat are associated with things like high blood pressure and cholesterol, which can increase the risk of heart disease."....

3. There's Potential to Go Overboard
What seems to be nutritionists' biggest concern about the keto diet is that people will use it as an excuse to eat lots of cheese and bacon, but will ignore the advice to eat lots of vegetables and other plant-based foods.

In fact, a major concern of the keto diet is that it allows plenty of saturated fats and animal products, which increase risk for heart and kidney diseases as well as cancer, a June 2020 study in The American Journal of Medicine notes......

And these are the same western witch-doctors that say COVID jabs are 100% effective at preventing infection and 100% free from any adverse side effects. (Sudden adult death syndrome is caused by global warming, not COVID jabs.)

Again, the above criticisms are addressed in the videos and excepting our resident Go Ninja, M.D.; most western health/nutrition "professionals" are retarded chimpanzees flinging $h¡t around the room. The arguments are are also to authority "we doctors know eating fat makes you fat" but in the videos he brings the receipts with actual studies and research.

The article provides a total of 5 reasons. Most western-based diets are based on rubbish. Nobody knows your body better than you.

I bet the author(s) are quad-jabbed and so thankful that they are so when they got COVID anyway it was just "bad "and not "serious"... "I'd like to thank my birth control for working so well! Yes, I am pregnant but if not for the birth control working so well I'd be having triplets!"

[SOL]

Hahahah, some of your points are well noted. If you can't go grain free go wheat free, its the single best way to lose weight for good and keep it off. You can eat buckwheat, Quinoa, Cuscus, etc.

The article I posted on Keto was just to provide some background info. I tried Keto for a bit, but it was not that great. I also tried the caveman diet which was even worse, but then I think that things such as blood type, body type, genes etc have to be taken into consideration.

I consume lots of fruits (huge amounts of them), certain veggies, cheese, homemade yoghurt, and meat in moderation. It's really not that hard once you get over the addiction to wheat. However, if you can't, then at least reduce it significantly.


There are too many Youtube punks out there coming spewing their rubbish; yes, their rubbish is better than what comes out for the sorry excuse that is otherwise known as the medical establishment.

Finally what you want to find out is what works for you; that takes a bit of time and patience, so as Yodean said, start slowly

As for caffeine, I can't for the life of me figure out why you would want to give up on such a good compound. There are days when I have up to 6 cups of coffee though usually 3 cups and large ones at that

[Eric]

As for caffeine, I can't for the life of me figure out why you would want to give up on such a good compound. There are days when I have up to 6 cups of coffee though usually 3 cups and large ones at that

I'm not quitting caffeine, hence buying caffeinated breath mints to use in place of diet cola which causes an insulin response despite being calorie free. It's been almost 30 years since I drank coffee and I don't care for the taste but I'm going to brew a little coffee today and try bulletproof coffee (black coffee with a little butter and MCT oil whipped in).

The whole purpose of this in the short term is to prep for a long fast (might be 36 hours or 12 days, or something in-between; we'll see how I feel). If you eat a metric ton of cake and ice cream as your last meal before a fast you're going to have a really hard time. My goal is to get my body into ketosis (current status 15mg/ml) before starting the fast (taking only my vitamin supplements and prescription medications along with electrolytes, water, caffeine (pills/mints and/or black coffee if I can tolerate the taste).

In the long term my intent is to loose 75-100 lbs.

[harryg]

I don't have any medical background but my view is that "diets" don't work long-term, although you can lose a lot initially. People invariably "go on a diet" to lose some weight, and then stop, usually because they really miss all the nice things that they are no longer allowed. It is the cumulative effect of eating and exercise that creates your body weight.

True example: I have a pal who drinks 3-4 cups of tea per day and always has 2 biscuits with each one. I might have one biscuit a day, often none but let's say one. Over a 5-year period he is eating nearly 10,000 more biscuits than I am.

You must change your habits, even if only slightly, to have a lasting effect. When I was about 35 I instigated the simplest possible regime for both of us (I do the cooking), which was to eat slightly less at every meal. I admit that there was a catalyst for that, which was some digestive issues. I was closing in on 92kg when ideally I would be maybe 80kg - essentially had gained 1kg per year of marriage. Make of that what you will.

I decided on the eat slightly less plan because I know myself, and the idea of (say) not having a nice drink and some peanuts at 6pm did not appeal. I would have lost weight more quickly by cutting out the booze & nuts, but how long would that have lasted? Another thing we do is to often have a nutritious home-made soup at the start of a meal (poor man's meal). I could probably still lose a couple of kg, but am currently 82kg 17 years later.

Finally, I really do think that processed food is nutritionally poor and "diet food" is often worse than the normal. You give an example of diet coke - I'm with Sol on that one, nothing wrong with natural sugar, why have an alternative? (NB: I understand that in the US they often use corn syrup in drinks though).

Best of luck !

PS: It's not all weight - fitness as important!

[SOL]

I don't have any medical background but my view is that "diets" don't work long-term, although you can lose a lot initially. People invariably "go on a diet" to lose some weight, and then stop, usually because they really miss all the nice things that they are no longer allowed. It is the cumulative effect of eating and exercise that creates your body weight.

True example: I have a pal who drinks 3-4 cups of tea per day and always has 2 biscuits with each one. I might have one biscuit a day, often none but let's say one. Over a 5-year period he is eating nearly 10,000 more biscuits than I am.

You must change your habits, even if only slightly, to have a lasting effect. When I was about 35 I instigated the simplest possible regime for both of us (I do the cooking), which was to eat slightly less at every meal. I admit that there was a catalyst for that, which was some digestive issues. I was closing in on 92kg when ideally I would be maybe 80kg - essentially had gained 1kg per year of marriage. Make of that what you will.

I decided on the eat slightly less plan because I know myself, and the idea of (say) not having a nice drink and some peanuts at 6pm did not appeal. I would have lost weight more quickly by cutting out the booze & nuts, but how long would that have lasted? Another thing we do is to often have a nutritious home-made soup at the start of a meal (poor man's meal). I could probably still lose a couple of kg, but am currently 82kg 17 years later.

Finally, I really do think that processed food is nutritionally poor and "diet food" is often worse than the normal. You give an example of diet coke - I'm with Sol on that one, nothing wrong with natural sugar, why have an alternative? (NB: I understand that in the US they often use corn syrup in drinks though).

Best of luck !

PS: It's not all weight - fitness as important!

I fully concur re the diet issue. Remove the T, and you get DIE as that is what one is essentially doing when they are on a diet, dying to eat all the stuff they are denying themselves

It has to be a lifestyle change, and there should always be something tasty that you enjoy in that change. For me, the change was giving up wheat. 2013 is the day I started, shed all the excess weight, which at one point was 15kg extra, albeit for a brief moment because I took drastic action. Now I oscillate between 80 to 84 depending on how much I work out.

And eating wholesome food as in non-processed is key to staying fit. In terms of sodas in the US you can get Coke from Mexico that has sugar in it or sodas with sugar in them if you search.

Some exercise is also good, even something simple as walking will suffice, but generally, any peak intensity type exercise will produce even better results.

[Eric]

My first fast started by accident and lasted approximately 42 hours. I felt great except the last two hours or so when I felt very tired and rather drunk.

[Yodean]

My first fast started by accident and lasted approximately 42 hours. I felt great except the last two hours or so when I felt very tired and rather drunk.

Congrats on losing your fasting cherry. Coming out of a long fast is a bit of an art in itself. Prolly best to f/u with some shorter (16 - 22 hr. fasts) before doing a bunch of longer ones, to let your body have some time to adapt metabolically from burning glucose/carbs to quickly burning fat/ketones, and getting your brain (as well as other parts of the nervous system) used to running efficiently more on ketones.

People tend to think fasting is a bit crazy, but we tend to forget that babies are born in a state of ketosis.

[LoriPrecisely]

As for caffeine, I can't for the life of me figure out why you would want to give up on such a good compound. There are days when I have up to 6 cups of coffee though usually 3 cups and large ones at that

I'm not quitting caffeine, hence buying caffeinated breath mints to use in place of diet cola which causes an insulin response despite being calorie free. It's been almost 30 years since I drank coffee and I don't care for the taste but I'm going to brew a little coffee today and try bulletproof coffee (black coffee with a little butter and MCT oil whipped in).

The whole purpose of this in the short term is to prep for a long fast (might be 36 hours or 12 days, or something in-between; we'll see how I feel). If you eat a metric ton of cake and ice cream as your last meal before a fast you're going to have a really hard time. My goal is to get my body into ketosis (current status 15mg/ml) before starting the fast (taking only my vitamin supplements and prescription medications along with electrolytes, water, caffeine (pills/mints and/or black coffee if I can tolerate the taste).

In the long term my intent is to loose 75-100 lbs.

You can try green tea. It is very healthy and has caffeine in it.

[Eric]

My first fast started by accident and lasted approximately 42 hours. I felt great except the last two hours or so when I felt very tired and rather drunk.

Congrats on losing your fasting cherry. Coming out of a long fast is a bit of an art in itself. Prolly best to f/u with some shorter (16 - 22 hr. fasts) before doing a bunch of longer ones, to let your body have some time to adapt metabolically from burning glucose/carbs to quickly burning fat/ketones, and getting your brain (as well as other parts of the nervous system) used to running efficiently more on ketones.

People tend to think fasting is a bit crazy, but we tend to forget that babies are born in a state of ketosis.

I've been pretty close to no-carb for about a month now (two times I "cracked" and ate quite a few chips, a 3rd time on my birthday I said; duck it, I want some pizza---I am THE ugly American). I was preparing for the fast, though the prep lasted way longer than I thought it would and the fast ended up being shorter than I expected (though I did best the 36 hour mark in one of my earlier posts). My wife has been sick and I think I cought her bug...I'd bet my body was just not up to the task of fighting infection while going through an extended fast. I ended my fast with a teaspoon of MCT oil and a hand-full of cashews that I chewed to paste. After 30-45 minutes when feeling no relief I had a cheddar cheese stick; another 30-45 minutes later I had an Angus beef hotdog (no bun) with plain yellow mustard; I felt better after that.

We'll see what the next one brings. One does not squat 450 lbs without training.

[SOL]

My first fast started by accident and lasted approximately 42 hours. I felt great except the last two hours or so when I felt very tired and rather drunk.

Congrats on losing your fasting cherry. Coming out of a long fast is a bit of an art in itself. Prolly best to f/u with some shorter (16 - 22 hr. fasts) before doing a bunch of longer ones, to let your body have some time to adapt metabolically from burning glucose/carbs to quickly burning fat/ketones, and getting your brain (as well as other parts of the nervous system) used to running efficiently more on ketones.

People tend to think fasting is a bit crazy, but we tend to forget that babies are born in a state of ketosis.

I've been pretty close to no-carb for about a month now (two times I "cracked" and ate quite a few chips, a 3rd time on my birthday I said; duck it, I want some pizza---I am THE ugly American). I was preparing for the fast, though the prep lasted way longer than I thought it would and the fast ended up being shorter than I expected (though I did best the 36 hour mark in one of my earlier posts). My wife has been sick and I think I cought her bug...I'd bet my body was just not up to the task of fighting infection while going through an extended fast. I ended my fast with a teaspoon of MCT oil and a hand-full of cashews that I chewed to paste. After 30-45 minutes when feeling no relief I had a cheddar cheese stick; another 30-45 minutes later I had an Angus beef hotdog (no bun) with plain yellow mustard; I felt better after that.

We'll see what the next one brings. One does not squat 450 lbs without training.

One way to cheat but legally so as to speak, is to take natural thyroid tablets. According to Dr Broda Barnes, a Dr they state had a success of rate of over 90% when it came to curing his patients, most people by the age of 30 are suffering from some sort of Thyroid malfunction and I think he made these claims back in the 50s or 60's.

Conventiontional thyroid tests only detect an issue when it's almost too late and many of them are useless. Body temp or the Achilles heel tendon test are old but time-tested methods to detect thyroid deficiency.

Anyway long story short, if you take thyroid supplements you become hypermetabolic sort of like a kid, whose pulse rate is close to 120 and if they are healthy they can eat and eat without gaining weight.

I know of at least 10 individuals that speeded up their weight loss and improved their overall health in the process. If interested, I provide some details of what they did as well as resources. One should generally use natural thyroid tablets like the Old Armour tablets, which one can now buy from Thailand.

[MarkD]

I have been on Synthroid for decades due to familial thryoid issues. Anything posted is appreciated.

[LoriPrecisely]

I have been on Synthroid for decades due to familial thryoid issues. Anything posted is appreciated.

Iodine is a good supplement to take for your thyroid, along with selenium, zinc and Vitamin D3.