Sleep issues

[bpcw]

Our lad of 15 has struggled with his sleep for sometime and now particular bad. He is saying that he feels like he is getting no sleep sometimes or 1 perhaps 2 hours, his fit watch seems to confirm this. He also gets voices which can be very negative.

They're have been various posts on this but don't think a separate topic. Wondered what has helped others, someone mentioned baking soda in one post.

Obviously this is severe and affecting him quite badly, would really appreciate any help.

[Eric]

What do you mean he gets voices?

We give my 4 yo daughter 1mg melatonin with magnesium supplements 30-60 minutes before bedtime, knocks her right out.

Be careful about which melatonin you buy, get something that's 3rd party certified because some of it contains vastly higher amounts than what is claimed on the label (i.e. it's labeled as 5mg but actually contains 20mg). Also don't use too much for too long as it can cause side effects (depression, anxiety, joint pain) with extended use.

[bpcw]

Thanks Eric for this advice.

Mind chatter is quite common, this appears to be a little different and we intend to investigate further. He did struggle to sleep before the voices and this has made things worse. I think the advice I am looking for for now is more nutritional/supplements, perhaps shouldn't have mentioned the voices as we could have 2 issues running alongside each other but open if anyone has specific experience.

[SOL]

Thanks Eric for this advice.

Mind chatter is quite common, this appears to be a little different and we intend to investigate further. He did struggle to sleep before the voices and this has made things worse. I think the advice I am looking for for now is more nutritional/supplements, perhaps shouldn't have mentioned the voices as we could have 2 issues running alongside each other but open if anyone has specific experience.

He needs to relax, so B complex, Magnesium, and L-theanine can all help with the relaxation part. Good quality ice cream or a warm glass of milk roughly 30 minutes before bedtime can help a lot.

[bpcw]

Thanks Sol!

[Yodean]

Our lad of 15 has struggled with his sleep for sometime and now particular bad. He also gets voices which can be very negative.

https://youtu.be/zfbzq_Xi49w?t=8

*****

My 2c:

The above clip may be helpful. I know you aren't crazy about medical jargon, and the speaker is quite good about laying out his thoughts in a straightforward manner.

In my experience, sleep issues are often multifactorial - so it may take some time to sort everything out.

With that said, the most common category of causes is mental health - i.e. anxiety, depression, etc. - particularly given his age and the mainstream hysteria surrounding cv19, climate change, Russian nukes, Chinese tofupox, etc. the last few years.

Teenagers his age should be out there playing sports and trying to get laid ... the last few years of lockdowns, masking, etc. has really hurt his generation.

So I'd begin by trying to find if there's a specific cause to his symptoms.

Unfortunately, although not as common, some of the other causes of new onset sleep disturbance are serious, and need to be excluded - early presentation of schizophrenia and other schizoaffective disorders, as well as other psychiatric disorders including bipolar, not uncommonly present with sleep difficulties and "hearing voices" in his age group.

So best to exclude the more rare (but much more serious) causes by visiting the NHS (the National Health Shi*t Service? Lol) and getting him checked out, to rule out the more serious stuff.

Wouldn't jump to the supplements right away - they might just mask his symptoms and potentially cause more problems down the road, if your son turns out to have something more serious.

If and when the serious causes have been excluded, then some of the supplements may be helpful.

Fellow sub Hooligan posted a lot of very good, high quality information about improving sleep awhile ago, imo. You could also do a search of his posts for some ideas.

[bpcw]

Some great advice Yodean, will check out the video and Hooligan's stuff.

Think you're right that this is multifaceted, he has had a severe hip injury so not been able to see friends as much and a first girlfriend breakup, although his sleep was pretty bad before this.

Thanks!

[SOL]

*****

My 2c:

The above clip may be helpful. I know you aren't crazy about medical jargon, and the speaker is quite good about laying out his thoughts in a straightforward manner.

In my experience, sleep issues are often multifactorial - so it may take some time to sort everything out.

With that said, the most common category of causes is mental health - i.e. anxiety, depression, etc. - particularly given his age and the mainstream hysteria surrounding cv19, climate change, Russian nukes, Chinese tofupox, etc. the last few years.

Teenagers his age should be out there playing sports and trying to get laid ... the last few years of lockdowns, masking, etc. has really hurt his generation.

So I'd begin by trying to find if there's a specific cause to his symptoms.

Unfortunately, although not as common, some of the other causes of new onset sleep disturbance are serious, and need to be excluded - early presentation of schizophrenia and other schizoaffective disorders, as well as other psychiatric disorders including bipolar, not uncommonly present with sleep difficulties and "hearing voices" in his age group.

So best to exclude the more rare (but much more serious) causes by visiting the NHS (the National Health Shi*t Service? Lol) and getting him checked out, to rule out the more serious stuff.

Wouldn't jump to the supplements right away - they might just mask his symptoms and potentially cause more problems down the road, if your son turns out to have something more serious.

If and when the serious causes have been excluded, then some of the supplements may be helpful.

Fellow sub Hooligan posted a lot of very good, high quality information about improving sleep awhile ago, imo. You could also do a search of his posts for some ideas.

BPCW I would say Yodean is better qualified on this topic, so better to go along with his suggestions first.

[AstuteShift]

Our lad of 15 has struggled with his sleep for sometime and now particular bad. He is saying that he feels like he is getting no sleep sometimes or 1 perhaps 2 hours, his fit watch seems to confirm this. He also gets voices which can be very negative.

They're have been various posts on this but don't think a separate topic. Wondered what has helped others, someone mentioned baking soda in one post.

Obviously this is severe and affecting him quite badly, would really appreciate any help.

Yoga and meditation. Thank me later

[LoriPrecisely]

Our lad of 15 has struggled with his sleep for sometime and now particular bad. He is saying that he feels like he is getting no sleep sometimes or 1 perhaps 2 hours, his fit watch seems to confirm this. He also gets voices which can be very negative.

They're have been various posts on this but don't think a separate topic. Wondered what has helped others, someone mentioned baking soda in one post.

Obviously this is severe and affecting him quite badly, would really appreciate any help.

An easy first step would be to remove all electronic devices from his room, or turn them off. Remove all radiation sources. If you have a wifi router in the house, turn it off.
You can buy a good quality meter to measure his bedroom, because it is possible to be radiated by your neighbors wifi.
Schools have wifi. Stores have wifi. Churches have wifi.
Cars are even connected to the internet now. It is crazy!!

You could spend hours on this website, they have so much great information.
It is a group of physicians advocating for safe technology.
https://mdsafetech.org/melatonin-and-light-at-night/
https://mdsafetech.org/wi-fi-effects/

From the National Library of Medicine:
"Repeated Wi-Fi studies show that Wi-Fi causes oxidative stress, sperm/testicular damage, neuropsychiatric effects including EEG changes, apoptosis, cellular DNA damage, endocrine changes, and calcium overload."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2957371 ... 20overload.

"In conclusion, exposure towards 2.45 GHz RF-EMR emitted by Wi-Fi transmitter is hazardous on the male reproductive system." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31353

"The hazardous consequences of electromagnetic field (EMF) exposure represent a public health concern." "Our data suggest that Wi-Fi exposure can influence bacteria in a stressful way, leading to an alteration in their antibiotic susceptibility, morphological changes, and cumulative biofilm formation." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34337771/
A lot of similar articles' links on this page regarding radiation and bacteria. Our body is full of bacteria. We are being adversely affected whether we like it or not.

[Triplethought]

Our lad of 15 has struggled with his sleep for sometime and now particular bad. He is saying that he feels like he is getting no sleep sometimes or 1 perhaps 2 hours, his fit watch seems to confirm this. He also gets voices which can be very negative.

They're have been various posts on this but don't think a separate topic. Wondered what has helped others, someone mentioned baking soda in one post.

Obviously this is severe and affecting him quite badly, would really appreciate any help.

Yoga and meditation. Thank me later

The "voices" is a serious symptom. Married to a psychiatrist for 30 years. So seriously you may have to break down and make an appointment with a psychiatrist. In this case science should be embraced. I'm not one of the "I like to experiment on my own body using ridiculous substances I read about on the internet" crowd.

Some of the things they prescribe for voices actually have side effects of sleepiness so you can address the voices (which is a serious symptom) and get him to sleep. Drugs they may try include Chlorpromazine (Thorazine)
Fluphenazine (Prolixin)
Haloperidol (Haldol)
Perphenazine (Trilafon)
Thioridazine (Mellaril)
Thiothixene (Navane)
Trifluoperazine (Stelazine)

Other than that if you're one of the "I only believe in natural remedies crowd"
Try Exhausting exercise like running. And make sure he drinks NO caffine ever not even in the morning
Make sure he knows how to masturbate (helps get to sleep)
Melatonin gummies (I personally think they're useless but some people say they work)
Pot gummies if they're legal in your state (I know I know - bad idea he's 15)
small slug of alcohol (I know I know - bad idea)
low dose of a Benadryl over the counter (problem is it makes you a fuzzy the next morning but you could try it when he's desperate)
You could experiment with 1/2 Zolpidem - It's also prescription and it will work but it's easy to get used to.

[bpcw]

Our lad of 15 has struggled with his sleep for sometime and now particular bad. He is saying that he feels like he is getting no sleep sometimes or 1 perhaps 2 hours, his fit watch seems to confirm this. He also gets voices which can be very negative.

They're have been various posts on this but don't think a separate topic. Wondered what has helped others, someone mentioned baking soda in one post.

Obviously this is severe and affecting him quite badly, would really appreciate any help.

An easy first step would be to remove all electronic devices from his room, or turn them off. Remove all radiation sources. If you have a wifi router in the house, turn it off.
You can buy a good quality meter to measure his bedroom, because it is possible to be radiated by your neighbors wifi.
Schools have wifi. Stores have wifi. Churches have wifi.
Cars are even connected to the internet now. It is crazy!!

You could spend hours on this website, they have so much great information.
It is a group of physicians advocating for safe technology.
https://mdsafetech.org/melatonin-and-light-at-night/
https://mdsafetech.org/wi-fi-effects/

From the National Library of Medicine:
"Repeated Wi-Fi studies show that Wi-Fi causes oxidative stress, sperm/testicular damage, neuropsychiatric effects including EEG changes, apoptosis, cellular DNA damage, endocrine changes, and calcium overload."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2957371 ... 20overload.

"In conclusion, exposure towards 2.45 GHz RF-EMR emitted by Wi-Fi transmitter is hazardous on the male reproductive system." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31353

"The hazardous consequences of electromagnetic field (EMF) exposure represent a public health concern." "Our data suggest that Wi-Fi exposure can influence bacteria in a stressful way, leading to an alteration in their antibiotic susceptibility, morphological changes, and cumulative biofilm formation." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34337771/
A lot of similar articles' links on this page regarding radiation and bacteria. Our body is full of bacteria. We are being adversely affected whether we like it or not.

Thanks LoriPrecisely, he doesn't have any electronic device in his room apart from a kindle with the wifi off, we restrict his gaming/tv times and his mobile usage to messaging mainly and he has to leave it downstairs at night. I switched the router off last night before going to bed and will do so from now on.

[bpcw]

Our lad of 15 has struggled with his sleep for sometime and now particular bad. He is saying that he feels like he is getting no sleep sometimes or 1 perhaps 2 hours, his fit watch seems to confirm this. He also gets voices which can be very negative.

They're have been various posts on this but don't think a separate topic. Wondered what has helped others, someone mentioned baking soda in one post.

Obviously this is severe and affecting him quite badly, would really appreciate any help.

Yoga and meditation. Thank me later

The "voices" is a serious symptom. Married to a psychiatrist for 30 years. So seriously you may have to break down and make an appointment with a psychiatrist. In this case science should be embraced. I'm not one of the "I like to experiment on my own body using ridiculous substances I read about on the internet" crowd.

Some of the things they prescribe for voices actually have side effects of sleepiness so you can address the voices (which is a serious symptom) and get him to sleep. Drugs they may try include Chlorpromazine (Thorazine)
Fluphenazine (Prolixin)
Haloperidol (Haldol)
Perphenazine (Trilafon)
Thioridazine (Mellaril)
Thiothixene (Navane)
Trifluoperazine (Stelazine)

Other than that if you're one of the "I only believe in natural remedies crowd"
Try Exhausting exercise like running. And make sure he drinks NO caffine ever not even in the morning
Make sure he knows how to masturbate (helps get to sleep)
Melatonin gummies (I personally think they're useless but some people say they work)
Pot gummies if they're legal in your state (I know I know - bad idea he's 15)
small slug of alcohol (I know I know - bad idea)
low dose of a Benadryl over the counter (problem is it makes you a fuzzy the next morning but you could try it when he's desperate)
You could experiment with 1/2 Zolpidem - It's also prescription and it will work but it's easy to get used to.

Thanks Triplethought for taking the time and effort to respond.

The voices are more recent and has had terrible sleep for sometime before this which is why I think it is more than one thing.

On the science thing, my experience from knowing many people and their experiences is that the whole medical industry is pharmaceutically based, they fund the medical schools etc., I am a huge sceptic of the way it works. I know too many people who have had terrible experiences from the drugs they were prescribed. One friend who was diagnosed with cancer in the jaw was given 2 months to live if he didn't go through an operation to remove part of his jaw/tumor then chemo, went down a completely natural route and is alive 5 years later and the tumor/lump has gone completely.

I'm afraid science, money and power don't make for a very good outcome in my view. It's a case of who you believe so I do look at the Internet and this forum for alternative views from the mainstream narrative of going to your local drug dispenser, sorry I mean doctor! Don't get me wrong, the medical industry has it's place, but I believe we have to pick and choose what services we rely on, I wouldn't go to the Internet if I broke my leg!

One last example, my friend had been getting migraines for 15 years, around 6 months ago I did some research on the Internet to find that magnesium supplements is one of the first things you should try, he now takes them daily and only gets the occasional headache, 15 years of going to his GP being prescribed painkillers, blood tests, MRI scan etc.

Psychotherapy is a possibility but other avenues to explore first.

Once again thanks for your advice, particularly take on board the physiological side.

[bpcw]

BPCW I would say Yodean is better qualified on this topic, so better to go along with his suggestions first.

Thanks Sol, just this simple advice shows wisdom with humility.

[Yodean]

Married to a psychiatrist for 30 years.

There's so much I want to say about this, but I'll leave it at ... my condolences.