Random Option plays on Market Update stock plays

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LoriPrecisely
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Re: Random Option plays on Market Update stock plays

Post by LoriPrecisely »

Eric wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 5:11 pm
LoriPrecisely wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:39 pm Does that mean VALE Call is a Buy today?

Stock is trading at 14.93 today.
Midpoint premium is 3.25.

VALE Jan 2024 13.000 Call
Deploy ¼ of your funds into these calls when the stock trades in the 15.50 to 16.50 ranges. If it trades to 18.20 before you get in, this trade will no longer be valid.

I bought it.
That was a buy signal. Remember to report the price you paid to [email protected].
Thank you for that, Eric.
And, thank you for the email address.
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Re: Random Option plays on Market Update stock plays

Post by Centeron631 »

here is my dilema on intitation into selling covered calls in this case Asana:

first i aquired 100 shares @25.75 a number of weeks ago when my cash secured put was assigned (extra $65 commission over and above my online rate of $10) but before i knew it it was quickly headed to $18 (perhaps this is where one has to watch these every day); just before that drop or on the way down i decided I would sell to close my first covered call @35 to expire in Aug 22 which paid me about 84$ net of fees. So i have the 100 shares now locked in until Aug 22 with a cost base of $25.75. So im thinking right now with the last trade on buying to close the call .27 but with the stock trading down further today bid .20 and ask as hi as .35 - am i better off freeing up my stock holding by buying to close or just waiting it out?

For those of u who r still a little fuzzy about the selling cash secured puts i found this guy very clarifying in that he uses a spread sheet for one to see at each step of the transaction process. The ultimate dilema for myself is just how closely i have to watch these and the increadible amount of bookkeeping for in my case CRA canada revenue agency that this will entail as already swamped in that area and also maybe a slight chance of being deemed carrying on a business so taxed fully vs on capital acct tax on 50%gain

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hedFz0MscnM
be in/do the PRESENT = Live the MIRACLE = infinity; there is no more, Why not now?... The Law of Mirrors. I'd go insane if I didn't act crazy
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Re: Random Option plays on Market Update stock plays

Post by Centeron631 »

got to stay off utube - Here is one telling u the mistakes u r making and how to right them using the Wheel strategy.....in iho
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NpCctMZYO0
be in/do the PRESENT = Live the MIRACLE = infinity; there is no more, Why not now?... The Law of Mirrors. I'd go insane if I didn't act crazy
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LoriPrecisely
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Re: Random Option plays on Market Update stock plays

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Centeron631 wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:13 pm here is my dilema on intitation into selling covered calls in this case Asana:

first i aquired 100 shares @25.75 a number of weeks ago when my cash secured put was assigned (extra $65 commission over and above my online rate of $10) but before i knew it it was quickly headed to $18 (perhaps this is where one has to watch these every day); just before that drop or on the way down i decided I would sell to close my first covered call @35 to expire in Aug 22 which paid me about 84$ net of fees. So i have the 100 shares now locked in until Aug 22 with a cost base of $25.75. So im thinking right now with the last trade on buying to close the call .27 but with the stock trading down further today bid .20 and ask as hi as .35 - am i better off freeing up my stock holding by buying to close or just waiting it out?

For those of u who r still a little fuzzy about the selling cash secured puts i found this guy very clarifying in that he uses a spread sheet for one to see at each step of the transaction process. The ultimate dilema for myself is just how closely i have to watch these and the increadible amount of bookkeeping for in my case CRA canada revenue agency that this will entail as already swamped in that area and also maybe a slight chance of being deemed carrying on a business so taxed fully vs on capital acct tax on 50%gain
I, personally, would buy to close. You made some money, and now you can free up your collateral to do it again. The premiums change every day, all day long. If you watch Call premiums on an UP day, they will increase, so you can sell another Call.

Bookkeeping...Yes, :lol: I am working on Excel sheets to keep track of my trades. My two lots of ASAN stock purchases, 35.48 and 25.00 gives me a cost basis of 30.24 per share. With all the option trades I have done in the last 3 weeks, I have lowered my cost basis to 17.33. I almost always Buy to Close whether it is a Put or a Call. I have 6 contracts open right now, 4 Puts and 2 Calls, so my cost basis will change if I get assigned, and when I Buy to Close these positions.

Regarding watching these trades, I do because I can, and I like doing it, but, I have heard people say there is a way to set alerts and/or set a limit order to buy to close. I have not explored this yet, but I can see the benefit.

As far as taxes, is there a minimum amount earned before they will consider it to be a business? Can you put money into a Roth IRA? The earnings are not taxable.
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Re: Random Option plays on Market Update stock plays

Post by Centeron631 »

to Lori Precisely

thks LP:

as to : " My two lots of ASAN stock purchases, 35.48 and 25.00 gives me a cost basis of 30.24 per share. With all the option trades I have done in the last 3 weeks, I have lowered my cost basis to 17.33. I almost always Buy to Close whether it is a Put or a Call. I have 6 contracts open right now, 4 Puts and 2 Calls, so my cost basis will change if I get assigned, and when I Buy to Close these positions."

1. As to your positions in the stock Asan - r u saying that none so far were a result of being assigned but as a result of 2 purchases of 100 shares each. With the stock falling to $18 how have u avoided any assignments? IF u have been buying to close all along on this Asan and have 4 open put sells and 2 open ccall sells in Asan does that not mean for the 4 puts u have to have collateral to be able to buy 400 shares and r the 4 combined into one transaction or all separate - or perhaps u r talking about other companies as well? Imputing an average of payout of say .65 cents per share after fees- it must have taken a barrel of put sale contracts and cc sales (maybe around 15-20) to get down to a cost base of 17.33$ on Asan ? How far out have u been going time wise on these contracts?

I guess in Canada our Tfsa(tax free savings account) is similar somewhat to your Roth and our RRSP (registered retirement savings plan) is similar to your Ira and both Canadian registered types only allow for qualified investments as defined by our cra (income tax Act and regs) - ergo only buys and sales of naked puts and writing of covered calls are allowed along with public co shares- i do not believe one is alowed to buy to close a covered call inside them.
be in/do the PRESENT = Live the MIRACLE = infinity; there is no more, Why not now?... The Law of Mirrors. I'd go insane if I didn't act crazy
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Re: Random Option plays on Market Update stock plays

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Centeron631 wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:13 pm The ultimate dilema for myself is just how closely i have to watch these and the increadible amount of bookkeeping for in my case CRA canada revenue agency
The bookkeeping isn't that bad if you stay on top of it. I calculate my net profits or expenses with SCC'ing and SCP'ing on a daily or weekly basis. I just started doing my version of "Wheeling" in late April, and so far it hasn't been too onerous keeping track of premium income (SCC'ing, SCP'ing) and expenses (buying to close, margin interest).

I make a lot of these trades daily, so I don't track them using those fancy Excel spreadsheets - would take too much time for my liking. I simply track net premium income.

My RBC brokerage doesn't even give me any official year-end tax documents on the gains from writing options - leaving some room for me to fudge on my taxes, if I wish - while the brokerage gives me tax documents on every other type of trade I make. I am not sure why this is the case.

The 1st video you posted was pretty good for beginners - the only point of disagreement for me is that the YTuber SCP'd on a day when his stock rose. Generally, as has been stated previously, it's better to SCP on a stock on a "down" day, for better premiums, all other conditions being equal. I know he was prolly trying to be a badass on YT and SCP perfectly on a clear reversal candle to the upside on a stock that had been trending downwards, but it's somewhat misleading to imply that one needs to do this to be profitable using SCP.

The 2nd video you posted is quite good for intermediate Wheelers - it might be confusing for beginners. He makes several nuanced points worthy of consideration, e.g. premiums are often higher for SCP vs. SCC under similar conditions, and his thinking is that this is because traders fear loss more than they want gain, which is prolly true.

He also makes the point that around 45 days is his preferred options expiry duration ("sweet spot") for these type of trades, vs. shorter time periods, like weekly. From my experience thus far, I tend to agree - I like the 4 to 6 week expiry duration, whenever possible, for Wheeling, to take advantage of exponential theta decay while also securing decent premiums. Now I suppose if you Wheel using weekly expiry, the cumulative amount may be greater vs. monthly, but in Canada at least, the increased amount of trading fees may render the shorter duration expiration periods a net negative (plus all the extra work tracking the trades).

SCC'ing is also a very useful, and profitable tactic, regardless if you are spinning a particular Wheel or not. A lot of us have accumulated shares in stocks that are just kind of sitting around, waiting for that upward spike that would compel us to take profits.

The beauty of SCC is that you generate income on these stocks, almost as a bonus. If you're afraid of your shares getting called away, just set your strike higher than what is realistically likely, within a particular time frame. You'll generate less premium, but it's still better than nothing. And if your shares get called away, you can usually buy them back directly at the strike at which they were called away, or you can SCP them back over time.

If you never have your shares called away during SCC, you're prolly setting your strike too high, and are not optimizing your premium income. If your shares are getting called away a lot, you're setting your strike too low.

Everyone seems to like to use a delta of 0.3 or so to assess this, but my current thinking is that delta is overrated. For me, I ask myself: what price do I not mind my shares being called away for a particular stock I am SCC'ing? Then I look at the technical charts of the stock in question and decide how realistic that a certain price point will be reached during a particular options duration period, and generally set my strike a little higher above that, while keeping the first question in mind, and of course taking a took at the premium prices.

I apply a similar process for SCP'ing a stock.
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Re: Random Option plays on Market Update stock plays

Post by SOL »

One other point, if you SCC and the call is in the money. You can buy back those calls and sell another call with more time premium so net, net you don't lose any money. I talk about that here and did that with PDD. I use a custom credit spread to buy the old call back while selling a new one and in doing so paid only one commission.


How to Rollover your options for the price of one trade
viewtopic.php?t=482
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Re: Random Option plays on Market Update stock plays

Post by LoriPrecisely »

I am wondering if anyone is interested in Shopify.
It has a lot of option activity, and they are doing a 10:1 stock split on June 29.
Current market price is 357.
I am interested.
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Re: Random Option plays on Market Update stock plays

Post by LoriPrecisely »

SOL wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:37 am One other point, if you SCC and the call is in the money. You can buy back those calls and sell another call with more time premium so net, net you don't lose any money. I talk about that here and did that with PDD. I use a custom credit spread to buy the old call back while selling a new one and in doing so paid only one commission.


How to Rollover your options for the price of one trade
viewtopic.php?t=482
I am going to sell a put for PDD today. They have a lot of option activity.
Did you read that China risks having many of their stocks delisted from our exchange because they refuse to comply with the audit requirements?
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Re: Random Option plays on Market Update stock plays

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LoriPrecisely wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:03 pm I am wondering if anyone is interested in Shopify.
It has a lot of option activity, and they are doing a 10:1 stock split on June 29.
Current market price is 357.
I am interested.
I have a small position in SHOP. Technically appears to be trying to base, or may have put in an interim, tradable bottom already. Quite oversold on the weeklies and monthlies. Trying to solidify a bullish MACD x-over on my weeklies.

Long-term I think it'll do pretty well. The Tech bloodbath looks to be abating.
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Re: Random Option plays on Market Update stock plays

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LoriPrecisely wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:06 pm Did you read that China risks having many of their stocks delisted from our exchange because they refuse to comply with the audit requirements?
They've been saying this for quite a while now ... theoretically, it's possible, but I generally don't worry about it too much. Too much $$$ in the Chinese markets for the Big Boys to allow much delisting to occur. I have positions of various sorts in stocks or options like TCEHY, BABA, BIDU, VIPS, FXI, MOMO, etc.

In a sense, from a Horde Psychology perspective, because of these fears of delisting, one may say that the good Chinese stocks are trading at a discount, as these fears are baked into the price.

nfa.
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Re: Random Option plays on Market Update stock plays

Post by Centeron631 »

SOL wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:37 am One other point, if you SCC and the call is in the money. You can buy back those calls and sell another call with more time premium so net, net you don't lose any money. I talk about that here and did that with PDD. I use a custom credit spread to buy the old call back while selling a new one and in doing so paid only one commission.


How to Rollover your options for the price of one trade
viewtopic.php?t=482
Sol in the sample U give on the other blog U started off with a scp and then u go into action with a couple of trades - so how does this impute for one commission?

But i have Vale scp 091622 15 put and i guess it has moved into the money as the underlying stock is now 14.12 ish (i do not get why i have not been assigned unless noone is interested in this stock?) but when i check to get to Buy to Close the price is way up at $2.00 and i was paid 1.43. So how would i use ur method to get out of this - would i buy to close and take the loss? and then.......? or just wait to see if i was assigned. thk u
be in/do the PRESENT = Live the MIRACLE = infinity; there is no more, Why not now?... The Law of Mirrors. I'd go insane if I didn't act crazy
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Re: Random Option plays on Market Update stock plays

Post by Centeron631 »

Yodean having written:

"The bookkeeping isn't that bad if you stay on top of it. I calculate my net profits or expenses with SCC'ing and SCP'ing on a daily or weekly basis. I just started doing my version of "Wheeling" in late April, and so far it hasn't been too onerous keeping track of premium income (SCC'ing, SCP'ing) and expenses (buying to close, margin interest).

I make a lot of these trades daily, so I don't track them using those fancy Excel spreadsheets - would take too much time for my liking. I simply track net premium income.

My RBC brokerage doesn't even give me any official year-end tax documents on the gains from writing options - leaving some room for me to fudge on my taxes, if I wish - while the brokerage gives me tax documents on every other type of trade I make. I am not sure why this is the case."

Yodean i think the big difference is that ur trades r in a corporation and therefor are all on account of income while mine r in my personal name in unregistered account - so i have to keep more recording for adjusted cost base as the cost base will show up on my T5008 officially thru my broker to CRa (the 2 scp's in 2021 did) whereas they will not show up on your T5008 or perhaps any other T3's or T5's (i take that is what u r saying?)...

As to Brokers for us canooks im going to change to National Bank Direct Brokerage to get the zero commissions and the only thing holding me up right now is getting all my accounting up to date with Scotia Itrade as the access to transaction records will disappear and yes the spreadsheet for these trades r complicated at least until i finish the learning curve. (not sure what u pay for commissions being a frequent trader but i pay full 9.99 at Si but BMO investorline as a result of nbdb lowered from 9.95 to 6.95. There is a string on Reddit.com from those who changed to nbdb and appear no regrets.
be in/do the PRESENT = Live the MIRACLE = infinity; there is no more, Why not now?... The Law of Mirrors. I'd go insane if I didn't act crazy
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Re: Random Option plays on Market Update stock plays

Post by SOL »

Centeron631 wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:57 pm
SOL wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:37 am One other point, if you SCC and the call is in the money. You can buy back those calls and sell another call with more time premium so net, net you don't lose any money. I talk about that here and did that with PDD. I use a custom credit spread to buy the old call back while selling a new one and in doing so paid only one commission.


How to Rollover your options for the price of one trade
viewtopic.php?t=482
Sol in the sample U give on the other blog U started off with a scp and then u go into action with a couple of trades - so how does this impute for one commission?

But i have Vale scp 091622 15 put and i guess it has moved into the money as the underlying stock is now 14.12 ish (i do not get why i have not been assigned unless noone is interested in this stock?) but when i check to get to Buy to Close the price is way up at $2.00 and i was paid 1.43. So how would i use ur method to get out of this - would i buy to close and take the loss? and then.......? or just wait to see if i was assigned. thk u
Most option players even the sellers of options are speculators, they don't really want to take the puts. I sold a deep-in-the-money call on PDD, I think it's Nov 55 and I got almost 19 bucks for it. I am 99% sure my shares won't get called away until there is maybe 1 to 2 weeks left on the option. Why I am doing this is because I sell them on up days and then buy them on down days making 200 or 300 sometimes more on down days. Don't mimic what I do until you are certain you understand the stock. I don't mind losing these shares if had to. If my shares get called away, I would still make an extra 700 more than if I sold the shares at the current price.

As for your trade, you need to spend time learning how to roll over an option. When you roll over there is no loss other than the commission You buy back the old option and sell a new one with more time on it for a higher price, so net-net you win. Once you understand that you could enter a custom limit order like I did
Buy to close your Vale put (first leg of the trade)
Sell to open another vale put with more time (second leg)

The net difference should be in your favour, so in this case, once you understand how to trade spreads you would list the amount of credit you want. So for example you could list 300, which means after both transactions are complete, a net of 300 will be deposited in your account.
When the words short term appear under any post; the same conditions listed in the Market update under the short term category apply

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Re: Random Option plays on Market Update stock plays

Post by SOL »

Yodean wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:16 pm
Centeron631 wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:13 pm The ultimate dilema for myself is just how closely i have to watch these and the increadible amount of bookkeeping for in my case CRA canada revenue agency
The bookkeeping isn't that bad if you stay on top of it. I calculate my net profits or expenses with SCC'ing and SCP'ing on a daily or weekly basis. I just started doing my version of "Wheeling" in late April, and so far it hasn't been too onerous keeping track of premium income (SCC'ing, SCP'ing) and expenses (buying to close, margin interest).

I make a lot of these trades daily, so I don't track them using those fancy Excel spreadsheets - would take too much time for my liking. I simply track net premium income.

My RBC brokerage doesn't even give me any official year-end tax documents on the gains from writing options - leaving some room for me to fudge on my taxes, if I wish - while the brokerage gives me tax documents on every other type of trade I make. I am not sure why this is the case.

The 1st video you posted was pretty good for beginners - the only point of disagreement for me is that the YTuber SCP'd on a day when his stock rose. Generally, as has been stated previously, it's better to SCP on a stock on a "down" day, for better premiums, all other conditions being equal. I know he was prolly trying to be a badass on YT and SCP perfectly on a clear reversal candle to the upside on a stock that had been trending downwards, but it's somewhat misleading to imply that one needs to do this to be profitable using SCP.

The 2nd video you posted is quite good for intermediate Wheelers - it might be confusing for beginners. He makes several nuanced points worthy of consideration, e.g. premiums are often higher for SCP vs. SCC under similar conditions, and his thinking is that this is because traders fear loss more than they want gain, which is prolly true.

He also makes the point that around 45 days is his preferred options expiry duration ("sweet spot") for these type of trades, vs. shorter time periods, like weekly. From my experience thus far, I tend to agree - I like the 4 to 6 week expiry duration, whenever possible, for Wheeling, to take advantage of exponential theta decay while also securing decent premiums. Now I suppose if you Wheel using weekly expiry, the cumulative amount may be greater vs. monthly, but in Canada at least, the increased amount of trading fees may render the shorter duration expiration periods a net negative (plus all the extra work tracking the trades).

SCC'ing is also a very useful, and profitable tactic, regardless if you are spinning a particular Wheel or not. A lot of us have accumulated shares in stocks that are just kind of sitting around, waiting for that upward spike that would compel us to take profits.

The beauty of SCC is that you generate income on these stocks, almost as a bonus. If you're afraid of your shares getting called away, just set your strike higher than what is realistically likely, within a particular time frame. You'll generate less premium, but it's still better than nothing. And if your shares get called away, you can usually buy them back directly at the strike at which they were called away, or you can SCP them back over time.

If you never have your shares called away during SCC, you're prolly setting your strike too high, and are not optimizing your premium income. If your shares are getting called away a lot, you're setting your strike too low.

Everyone seems to like to use a delta of 0.3 or so to assess this, but my current thinking is that delta is overrated. For me, I ask myself: what price do I not mind my shares being called away for a particular stock I am SCC'ing? Then I look at the technical charts of the stock in question and decide how realistic that a certain price point will be reached during a particular options duration period, and generally set my strike a little higher above that, while keeping the first question in mind, and of course taking a took at the premium prices.

I apply a similar process for SCP'ing a stock.
Maybe this tool might help you both

https://www.neat.com/?msclkid=2bb7a6b8a ... ent=Static


Turbo tax premier also seems like it might a useful tool for investors
https://investorjunkie.com/taxes/best-t ... investors/
When the words short term appear under any post; the same conditions listed in the Market update under the short term category apply

The end is always near; its the beginning and how you live each moment that counts the most
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