Alternative news sources and Interesting articles to examine

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outof thebox
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The Return of Industrial Warfare

Post by outof thebox »

Can the West still provide the arsenal of democracy?

The war in Ukraine has proven that the age of industrial warfare is still here. The massive consumption of equipment, vehicles and ammunition requires a large-scale industrial base for resupply – quantity still has a quality of its own. The mass scale combat has pitted 250,000 Ukrainian soldiers, together with 450,000 recently mobilised citizen soldiers against about 200,000 Russian and separatist troops. The effort to arm, feed and supply these armies is a monumental task. Ammunition resupply is particularly onerous. For Ukraine, compounding this task are Russian deep fires capabilities, which target Ukrainian military industry and transportation networks throughout the depth of the country. The Russian army has also suffered from Ukrainian cross-border attacks and acts of sabotage, but at a smaller scale. The rate of ammunition and equipment consumption in Ukraine can only be sustained by a large-scale industrial base.

This reality should be a concrete warning to Western countries, who have scaled down military industrial capacity and sacrificed scale and effectiveness for efficiency. This strategy relies on flawed assumptions about the future of war, and has been influenced by both the bureaucratic culture in Western governments and the legacy of low-intensity conflicts. Currently, the West may not have the industrial capacity to fight a large-scale war. If the US government is planning to once again become the arsenal of democracy, then the existing capabilities of the US military-industrial base and the core assumptions that have driven its development need to be re-examined.

Estimating Ammo Consumption
There is no exact ammunition consumption data available for the Russia–Ukraine conflict. Neither government publishes data, but an estimate of Russian ammunition consumption can be calculated using the official fire missions data provided by the Russian Ministry of Defense during its daily briefing.

Number of Russian Daily Fire Missions, 19–31 May
Image

Although these numbers mix tactical rockets with conventional, hard-shell artillery, it is not unreasonable to assume that a third of these missions were fired by rocket troops because they form a third of a motorised rifle brigade’s artillery force, with two other battalions being tube artillery. This suggests 390 daily missions fired by tube artillery. Each tube artillery strike is conducted by a battery of six guns total. However, combat and maintenance breakdowns are likely to reduce this number to four. With four guns per battery and four rounds per gun, the tube artillery fires about 6,240 rounds per day. We can estimate an additional 15% wastage for rounds that were set on the ground but abandoned when the battery moved in a hurry, rounds destroyed by Ukrainian strikes on ammunition dumps, or rounds fired but not reported to higher command levels. This number comes up to 7,176 artillery rounds a day. It should be noted that the Russian Ministry of Defense only reports fire missions by forces of the Russian Federation. These do not include formations from the Donetsk and Luhansk separatist republics, which are treated as different countries. The numbers are not perfect, but even if they are off by 50%, it still does not change the overall logistics challenge.

The Capacity of the West’s Industrial Base
The winner in a prolonged war between two near-peer powers is still based on which side has the strongest industrial base. A country must either have the manufacturing capacity to build massive quantities of ammunition or have other manufacturing industries that can be rapidly converted to ammunition production. Unfortunately, the West no longer seems to have either.

Presently, the US is decreasing its artillery ammunition stockpiles. In 2020, artillery ammunition purchases decreased by 36% to $425 million. In 2022, the plan is to reduce expenditure on 155mm artillery rounds to $174 million. This is equivalent to 75,357 M795 basic ‘dumb’ rounds for regular artillery, 1,400 XM1113 rounds for the M777, and 1,046 XM1113 rounds for Extended Round Artillery Cannons. Finally, there are $75 million dedicated for Excalibur precision-guided munitions that costs $176K per round, thus totaling 426 rounds. In short, US annual artillery production would at best only last for 10 days to two weeks of combat in Ukraine. If the initial estimate of Russian shells fired is over by 50%, it would only extend the artillery supplied for three weeks.

The US is not the only country facing this challenge. In a recent war game involving US, UK and French forces, UK forces exhausted national stockpiles of critical ammunition after eight days.

And it continues https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/p ... al-warfare

It makes for a real interesting read.
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Re: The Return of Industrial Warfare

Post by Budge »

outof thebox wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 5:38 am And it continues https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/p ... al-warfare

"For the US to act as the arsenal of democracy in defence of Ukraine, there must be a major look at the manner and the scale at which the US organises its industrial base."
/quote]

It's way too late. While US defense contractors must be orgasmic over future orders, Russia has been gearing up. A Russian perspective:

"To put it in simple terms: Russia is NOT running out of ammo, high precision stand off weapons, tanks and aircraft because Russia was getting ready for the war with NATO.."

The article looks at the raw materials to run a war and how countries stack up.

"Surely, RUSI's report on the "return" (I never heard of it ever going away) of "industrial warfare" may have come as a surprise to West's "elites", but the truth is--human civilization and its, sadly, major product--the warfare--always ran, runs and will continue to run on such things as steel, aluminum, oil, other sources of energy, other materials which are crucial in production of anything war related starting from fuel and artillery shells to finished and highly complex things such as satellites, submarines and combat aircraft. No steel, aluminum, composite materials or oil--no civilization and no modern warfare....

Think about it. Russia, being twice smaller in population than the United States, produces 69% of American production of energy and more than half that of China. To produce a variety of both civilian and military products you need energy, a lot of it. And this is precisely the reason Russia is not running out of ammo and high precision stand off weapons, because Russia IS prepared to take war to where combined West realistically cannot, without obliterating human civilization."

https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2022/0 ... -ammo.html
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Forever War

Post by Yodean »

Another perpective, not necessarily in direct contradiction to previous posts, is that the DeepState is not trying to "win" against Russia in the conventional sense.

War is good for business, as far as the military-industrial complex is concerned. Sell and fund lots of weapons, test out experimental weapons, etc.

From this perspective, you actually don't want "total victory," or annihilation of your enemy. If you completely crush your enemy, you then have to play nice and take care of your opponent's survivors, lands, women, children, etc.

The ultimate dream for the PTBs is Perpetual War, where no one side completely dominates. The Herd is kept in a constant state of fear - making the masses much easier to control by the PTBs, and all sorts of draconian surveillance measures, taxes, capital controls, etc. may be justified (e.g. Russians are going to nuke us! Stay home! Need to tax you more for defense tech against the threat of Russian cyberattack. The CCP has released tofu-pox! Get jabbed! etc.)

An active, chaotic Grand Chessboard benefits the PTBs.
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Re: Alternative news sources and Interesting articles to examine

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Perpetual War

Post by harryg »

Yodean wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:50 pm The ultimate dream for the PTBs is Perpetual War, where no one side completely dominates.
It follows that the three super-states not only cannot conquer one another, but would gain no advantage by doing so. On the contrary, so long as they remain in conflict they prop one another up, like three sheaves of corn. And, as usual, the ruling groups of all three powers are simultaneously aware and unaware of what they are doing. Their lives are dedicated to world conquest, but they also know that it is necessary that the war should continue everlastingly and without victory.


George Orwell, 1984

Written 1949
---------------------------------------
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Re: Alternative news sources and Interesting articles to examine

Post by Yodean »

SOL wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 9:59 am https://youtu.be/hDeYaicDDbs
Very good 25-minute clip, takes less time if one listens at 1.75x (they speak slowly and clearly enough). Covers a variety of timely topics in laywoman's terms.

Thumbs up.
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Re: Perpetual War

Post by LoriPrecisely »

harryg wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 10:48 am
Yodean wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:50 pm The ultimate dream for the PTBs is Perpetual War, where no one side completely dominates.
It follows that the three super-states not only cannot conquer one another, but would gain no advantage by doing so. On the contrary, so long as they remain in conflict they prop one another up, like three sheaves of corn. And, as usual, the ruling groups of all three powers are simultaneously aware and unaware of what they are doing. Their lives are dedicated to world conquest, but they also know that it is necessary that the war should continue everlastingly and without victory.


George Orwell, 1984

Written 1949
Excellent quote, Harry, you have a good memory.
I need to read that book again. It has been awhile.
I had my 17 year-old son read that book for his junior year, last year. We homeschool.
I am going to ask him if he remembers that quote.
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Re: Perpetual War

Post by PuppBaby »

[/quote]

Excellent quote, Harry, you have a good memory.
I need to read that book again. It has been awhile.
I had my 17 year-old son read that book for his junior year, last year. We homeschool.
I am going to ask him if he remembers that quote.
[/quote]

I just started reading 1984, I am about 20 pages in. It is quite a visually descriptive read so far, a bit gloomy for my taste. I feel a tad guilty reading it while sipping a cold one on my rooftop and absorbing the evening sun yesterday. If anyone is curious on Victory Gin, I have come across the below video. I have not tried it yet but maybe someone has.

https://youtu.be/yatfhkpE4II
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Re: Perpetual War

Post by jlhooter »

PuppBaby wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 9:07 pm
Excellent quote, Harry, you have a good memory.
I need to read that book again. It has been awhile.
I had my 17 year-old son read that book for his junior year, last year. We homeschool.
I am going to ask him if he remembers that quote.
[/quote]

I just started reading 1984, I am about 20 pages in. It is quite a visually descriptive read so far, a bit gloomy for my taste. I feel a tad guilty reading it while sipping a cold one on my rooftop and absorbing the evening sun yesterday. If anyone is curious on Victory Gin, I have come across the below video. I have not tried it yet but maybe someone has.

https://youtu.be/yatfhkpE4II
[/quote]

Pup, that video was enjoyable. I like that guy. I will have to check out other drinks he does
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Re: Perpetual War

Post by LoriPrecisely »

PuppBaby wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 9:07 pm
Excellent quote, Harry, you have a good memory.
I need to read that book again. It has been awhile.
I had my 17 year-old son read that book for his junior year, last year. We homeschool.
I am going to ask him if he remembers that quote.
[/quote]

I just started reading 1984, I am about 20 pages in. It is quite a visually descriptive read so far, a bit gloomy for my taste. I feel a tad guilty reading it while sipping a cold one on my rooftop and absorbing the evening sun yesterday. If anyone is curious on Victory Gin, I have come across the below video. I have not tried it yet but maybe someone has.

https://youtu.be/yatfhkpE4II
[/quote]
Have you ever made limoncello?
You infuse lemon peels and vodka, and then add a bit of sugar. I don't drink alcohol, but I drink my own creation of fresh-squeezed lemon juice with Perrier, Q Tonic and a bit of stevia. If I did drink alcohol, I would definitely be making limoncello,...with stevia.
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Re: Perpetual War

Post by SOL »

LoriPrecisely wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 8:29 pm
Excellent quote, Harry, you have a good memory.
I need to read that book again. It has been awhile.
I had my 17 year-old son read that book for his junior year, last year. We homeschool.
I am going to ask him if he remembers that quote.
It's not easy to homeschool when you start, but the rewards are great but it gets progressively easier with time. You help create an individual that you can have a healthy debate with and that can reason with resorting to violence or throwing temper tantrums if they are proven wrong.
When the words short term appear under any post; the same conditions listed in the Market update under the short term category apply

The end is always near; its the beginning and how you live each moment that counts the most
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Re: Alternative news sources and Interesting articles to examine

Post by SOL »

Another delicious drink from Brazil

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjMm98w ... asCityStar
When the words short term appear under any post; the same conditions listed in the Market update under the short term category apply

The end is always near; its the beginning and how you live each moment that counts the most
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Re: Perpetual War

Post by LoriPrecisely »

SOL wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 3:06 am
LoriPrecisely wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 8:29 pm
Excellent quote, Harry, you have a good memory.
I need to read that book again. It has been awhile.
I had my 17 year-old son read that book for his junior year, last year. We homeschool.
I am going to ask him if he remembers that quote.
It's not easy to homeschool when you start, but the rewards are great but it gets progressively easier with time. You help create an individual that you can have a healthy debate with and that can reason with resorting to violence or throwing temper tantrums if they are proven wrong.
I homeschooled all four of my children from beginning to end. My youngest son is the only one at home with me now. He technically has one more year, but is not the least bit interested in book learning anymore. He prefers real life experiences. So, that is what we are going with.
"You do not have to be great to get started, but you have to get started to be great."
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Re: Perpetual War

Post by SOL »

LoriPrecisely wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 3:12 am
SOL wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 3:06 am
LoriPrecisely wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 8:29 pm
Excellent quote, Harry, you have a good memory.
I need to read that book again. It has been awhile.
I had my 17 year-old son read that book for his junior year, last year. We homeschool.
I am going to ask him if he remembers that quote.
It's not easy to homeschool when you start, but the rewards are great but it gets progressively easier with time. You help create an individual that you can have a healthy debate with and that can reason with resorting to violence or throwing temper tantrums if they are proven wrong.
I homeschooled all four of my children from beginning to end. My youngest son is the only one at home with me now. He technically has one more year, but is not the least bit interested in book learning anymore. He prefers real life experiences. So, that is what we are going with.
If he did not read Aesop's fables, Ask him to read, then task him with finding individuals whose lives match those fables or ask him to tell you what each story means. Then teach him to invest, looks like he might have a gift for learning via real-life experience (as in seeing and dong)
When the words short term appear under any post; the same conditions listed in the Market update under the short term category apply

The end is always near; its the beginning and how you live each moment that counts the most
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Re: Perpetual War

Post by Yodean »

LoriPrecisely wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 3:12 am I homeschooled all four of my children from beginning to end.
I am quite surprised you survived the experience, and have time to pee, much less trade options and Wheel.

Kudos!
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